Transcript for "How to Create a Best-in-Class Sales Development Org with Anaplan's VP of Sales Development, Sadie Beckius": Woah. We're official. We are. Do you see me? Do I I see you. Whiteboard in all its glory. I could see you loud and clear. I gotta love the whiteboard. I should have wrote, like, a funny note here. It's part of every email I get from you. I feel like the whiteboard, it's movable. You got many of them based on how many times I get, Oh, yeah. I got one right here too. Yes. It's used in your LinkedIn messaging. I got all the friends who have seen those too. Yeah. My wife said, why do you have so many whiteboards? I'm like, I don't know. Why don't you? Because I I feel like my message and my emails are strong, the picture. We're feeling good about it. I'm not I was never a big whiteboarder. I don't have great handwriting. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if yours is, worthy of put your your handwriting is pretty, interesting as well. My handwriting is not good. It's always interesting seeing, like, the background of people's, like, things. Like, what I have here is, like, I have I bought this, like, $30 drone off of Amazon. So anytime I'm in a meeting where I'm just, like, I don't wanna, like, I I don't know. I am, like, maybe it's, like, a lot. I'm just, like, flying around. I'm just be listening in. It really is, like, the probably the one of the best parts of my day, and my cats love to swat it down. Oh, very unique. There's space We'll let, as we're waiting for everybody to come in, Will, do you actually does your space impact your, vibes and your callings? It impact, like, do you need a clean space? No. I can call from the coffee shop. We saw you with your, CEO the other day. But, like, do you need a a space that you call? Like, everybody's got, like, I want this, this, and this in order. You're like, no. Don't care. I'll call walking. I'll call the addition. What's your do you need a space or not really? Not really. Like, I've I've, like, legitimately made cold calls, like, from the bathroom. Like, not, like, just, like, in the bathroom generally. I would happen to be walking through the bathroom when I picked up the phone. I've made cold calls from a coffee shop, from my car. I don't think it matters. You know? What about you? Well, first, first, I will comment for a minute. This is this is the best part. I know people are trickling in, but if you look at, is that your oh, you is that someone else coming in? Thumbs up. No. I think when people are trickling in, if you look at something he's kinda going viral right now. His name is Gary Breka, kind of into science and health. But they talk about laws of attraction. And one of the most attractive, energies or qualities, they say, like, off the Richter chart, like super, is authenticity. So when someone is authentic, that comes in sales, that's part of anything SDR, but this is part of your charm, Will. You are super perfect. There's no filter. There's no buffer. You were on a stage. You're like, hey, everyone. I just make a phone call to bathroom. Don't no big deal over here. And that is part of your charm and why you're so good at your job, but you crack me up. So I am just commenting. No. I'm not. I don't need a special space. I don't need a special space. Yeah. I'm, I'm I'm blushing here. Well, I know we're in a few minutes here, so I know that we've got a few people that have rolled in. Welcome, everyone. Would love to get a quick poll poll of who's actually here today along with just a quick icebreaker. If you could guys could throw in the chat, like, what was actually your first job? And just so just so Sadie can understand a little bit who's in the audience to tailor our questions, like, what are some of your job titles? And then, Sadie, I'll answer that question. What was actually your first job? Are we well, over the job titles, and then are we asking me my first job out of the gates? Yes. Yes. But I will say there I can see some of the messages already in chat, and I see some of my, old, current. I think he was promoted, senior already in the message chat. So I'll just let you know I see you, and thank you all for joining the webinar. Some of the old SDRs I used to work with. So definitely, I will and some people think this is pretty interesting. My first job and I of course, you have stuff in high school whenever, but I would say one of my first jobs that's unique was I was a bus driver for my job in college. So let's let's talk about this. It's why. Why was I a bus driver? To be honest, I needed the time. Your resident assistant was your most highest paid job on campus. This is the 2nd highest paying job on campus. So if you, the bus driver from back and forth, I had 2 campuses where when I went to college, and so I still have it to this day. My class b license, I could drive a 75 person metro transit bus if I had to. Still on the on the license. Wow. We gotta get you over to the Dreamforce. Did you go? Did you were you there? Did you go to the Dreamforce? No. I did not. I did not. I had 2 little kiddos to take care of. My, actually, my first job was I used to work at Pizza Hut, and so I was out there wheeling, dealing pizzas. Now I'm wheeling, dealing demos. So that's, that's, pretty cool to see the translations between life. But, I I wanna cover some housekeeping here. Like, everyone in the chat, feel free to throw your questions or stories in there so that we can bring them in. I actually have our head of growth here, and she'll be kind of filtering the questions to make sure we get them answered. We'll have about 30 minutes of conversations between Sadie and I. We'll actually leave the last bit where you can ask her any question. No limit to the things you can ask, and we'll send out the recording after the fact. Really excited to introduce our guest, Sadie, here today. She is the sale VP of sales at over at Anaplan. And someone I've looked up really look up to and someone I've cold called a few times by myself, and there's a funny story behind that, me being roasted, but I won't get into it. What I find really impressive that she's hired over 300 SDRs and promoted over 30 of them and is way over plan, and it's only September. I personally believe she's successful because she has a relentless focus on what she does and what she does really well, and not only of developing her own skills, but they're the ones of the people she leads. Sadie, I'll kick it off to you. Feel free to add anything I missed there about yourself and your role at Anaplan and what you've built there before we hop into the convo. For sure. So the current teams are VP of sales development over here at Anaplan. I've been with Anaplan for about two and a half years, and I live in Minnesota. So if that puts in a helps anybody. Anaplan's currently headquarters in Miami. And the team itself, so we've got roughly about we're looking at around 15 actually in Minnesota, but globally, there's around getting close to 35 SDRs with leaders, 40 in the US. We have a whole team in EMEA. We're looking close to 30 over there. And then a whole APAC region team with Australia and Japan, with Singapore and Indonesia and India. All that team rolls up to me here at Anaplan. And the some of the questions of, hey. Just how do I get into it? I started as an SDR. 2010, as an SDR doing the process and going all the way through and up, asking some hard questions about, do I wanna do cold calling too? It has to happen every time in their moment. And here we are right back at it, for Anaplan, and super excited to be here. I love it. So now, obviously, that you've seen this since 2010, prospecting has changed a bit over the past 10 to 15 and even over the past 2 years. What do you feel like are the most important skills are for SDRs when you're hiring? Well, I'll take a step back. I think this is one of the things that goes with a framework and this is where the whole foundation of my team, the whole foundation that we rock. And I will be honest because see some of the people here in the room, like, I got this framework when I was at Concur as an SDR moving into management. And gosh, well, I forgot I haven't told you this story, but I remember when I was a first time leader and you go into your first time leading, your training, your development, and there was a woman who like brought up this screen and she said something. She said, 93% of leaders are bad at developing their teams. And for some reason, I took it to heart. So back in 2012, I was like, that's not gonna be me. And so we brought up this situational leadership was the framework that was kind of given to me. You see a book here by Paul Hersey, but Ken Blanchard was also part of it. And situational leadership, it's a whole language. It's about competencies. It's about commitment. It's about how you support and direct your team, and it helps quantify skill development. And that helps everybody when it comes to developing your team. And I know we'll get into that, but if you think about that, it's also part of who you hire and how you hire. And last but not least, with situational leadership, you don't actually have to have the title of a manager, a leader to work with someone to do it. And so this is that framework when you talk about hiring and that competency framework. So if I'm hiring and I'm looking for certain competencies, now I have a whole way to quantify it in the interview process, in, how we go forward, how we develop. It's definitely a competency framework that you align to your whole process. What's beautiful for me and the leaders on our my team is that it helps that conversation move forward, and it's everybody's talking that same language. And I think this is one of the big things about people, leaders, teams, and I think you can appreciate this too is that sometimes, you you talk to everybody. You're married. You have 2 kids. We all gotta agree that sometimes talking with someone, you're looking at the same thing, you're talking about the same thing, and you have no idea where that person's coming from, and you don't know what they're talking about, what they see. Right? So situational leadership for me, hiring, development, coaching development is all about a language of are you on the same page to go where you wanna get the outcome. So does that ring a bell to you? Like, well, like, thinking about it out loud, like, think of how many times you had a discussion. That kinda goes awry. It's probably due to a miscommunication or misalignment, and now you are farther 2 steps back than when you started. Does that make sense, that land? That resonates completely. I I think it would be cool if I could see an example of that. Oh. Well, I think this is the fun part. So, Shao, I have a screen for you that I think about. Hey. We're looking at something in front of us, and this is how I explain it to my team too to do it in real life. So everybody in the chat, I'm sure some of you have seen this picture before. It's not uncommon. So before, we go, if anybody wants to throw in the chat, who sees who sees an old woman and who sees a young woman? And I'm I've done this. So if anybody's on my team in the call, don't be answering it. So I see some people. I've got a young lady out of the gates. Julie, Ryan, young, young, young. Oh, old from the beginning. Oh, oh, in the beginning. Okay. Will will sees old. Okay. Now the bigger question. I'm looking at the same screen, so are all of you. Is there anybody in the chat and even for yourself, Will sees the old lady who doesn't see the opposite? Like, Will said, I'll show you with Will today. Will Will, do you see the young lady? I I don't. K. And I'm looking at the chat. I yes. I'm like, Julie, thank you. You don't you don't see the old. Jodas, I see both. A lot of people see both. I don't see the old. Perfect. Julian, let's do this in real time. Check out the next slide, everyone. Like, this is how the language situational leadership works. From the beginning, you can see the young lady. She's looking over her back. Right? And then in the middle, you're kinda like, hey. What's going on? It's still the same picture. And all of a sudden, you see the highlighted here of the old lady. Normally, when I do I literally use this picture when I do a training to my teams on situation leadership to get the connection, but I'm loving it in the chat. People, this is where if we are together, development, SDR leadership, we all have to talk the same language, and you have to start from the same point. And if you're not seeing the same thing in a picture, it really, really doesn't work to develop, coach, and hire people. And so what I do here is, like, when I in the real time is when all of a sudden you're like, hey. Oh my gosh. I see it. You see people's moments, and that is what leadership's about. That's what SDR leadership's about is that you are teaching people that have never seen this before. Think about all the leaders in the call. Think about SDR as your first time, career changers, entry, early development. This is that first time they're seeing a different perspective, a different world. And I find trying this framework, situational framework, sets the tone to how to get people on board fast and furious, when it comes to learning and seeing other people's perspective. So that's me. That's hiring. That's development. That's the framework. Mhmm. And so let's actually talk about growing your team skills. So with a team of 38 plus, you really need to understand how to do things at scale globally. Like, how are you thinking about scaling skill development globally? This and you talked a little bit about prospecting and skill development. There's so many skills as part of sales. That's not a hidden secret. Everybody knows that. And there's so many of them negotiating presentation skills, written communication. How do you show up professionally? Oh, how about management of systems? Champify's on here. But I think we all Salesforce, HubSpot, Marketo, Demandbase, 6th Sense. There's so many tools in the world of sales development as well. You really gotta break down and quantify that skill development. Where are you and where do you wanna go? Mhmm. And how how are you breaking down skill development like that? We really we bring it right back to situational leadership. There's 4 levels, d one through d four. And hey. Will will let's let's pick on Will. This is more fun for me. I don't know if everybody's out listening on the call, but it's more fun for me. It's that, let's pick on Will. Will's riffing calls. He's know where it's at. But we can all say that Will's super strength might not be professionalism. Fair? Fair. Okay. And to be fair, but here's the real question. Me and Will are gonna do this a little bit real time. You wanna quantify it. Will and I Will's professional. Does he need it to excel? I don't know. We don't know. Right? So the real question is, does Will want to? Does Will wanna be committed to doing something professional? That's a very different starting point than Will's like, hey. I think I'm pretty great. I'm ripped in calls. I can meet anybody. I can cold call to anybody. I'm good. Great. Then I'm I'm not going to develop Will on something he doesn't think he should get better at. And so that framework starts with Will's gonna tell me, hey. I have professionalism. I'm probably at a d one. I need a lot of help, but I'm excited. And then if Will's like, no. I'm good. I don't I'm I'm great at professionals. I can turn it on when I want to. I'd say d four o. I'm not gonna coach and develop you on that. That's that baseline. That's that framework. Mhmm. I'm I'm trying to understand the landscape a little bit here. Like, how how do you even start with skill development? Like, let's say, as an example, I have a rep who's stuck. Like, how do you even go about that in both cases? Let's do a normal one. Let's give, a normal one that I think most people are stuck in, but I would say this is probably the biggest in sales development is time management. Right? Time management is hard. It is not something that people just innately have. You either have a skill set and you gotta learn it. So let's just take it from the top. Time management is hard. So then I need to break this down into tasks or goals. So as an SDR, everybody's in the call, it's not crazy. There's a task I have. I need to increase call time during 1 to 3 PM. Not unheard of. I gotta get more done with less time. So how do I break that down? As the leader, I'm going to understand, 1st column, where's everybody at? If you're at d one, you don't know what you're doing, but you're pretty excited. Okay? D 2, I don't really don't wanna do this and I don't know what I'm doing. D 3, I've done it before, but I might need some help. And d 4, I know what I'm doing. I got this. I probably could help someone else and mentor. Right? This is just a high level time management competency, but we know there's multiple goals and tasks to get better at time management. And if you follow yourself along here in the framework, on the right hand side, if this was the task we were doing, ultimately as a leader, I have to say, okay. Will doesn't know what he's doing, but he's excited. I'm gonna give him a lot of direction and a lot of support. Okay. He doesn't really like what he's gonna do, and he doesn't wanna do it. Oh, that's a different conversation as a leader, and now I have to support differently. I'm probably still gonna say we're gonna do the blitz between 13. And for 34, you're excited to do it. I'm just gonna listen. I'm gonna help you, but I'm not gonna make the call. You're gonna figure it out. I trust you. You're gonna do great during this 1 to 3 blitz, and we're moving forward. Here's the with the landscape you talked about. So, yes, in front of us, we have a framework. I'm sure someone, read it. I'm hoping you're putting it 2 together, but here's what's unique about the leadership side. You have to do this in rocket speed. You have to ask questions to understand where is that person at. You have to be able to identify quickly. Let's just say Will's at the top. Doesn't he really doesn't know what to do, but he really likes it. I need to go into a mode of, oh, he needs lots of direction and lots of support. That has to happen at rocket speed for, I think, leaders to do great and develop, SDRs for what they need. Mhmm. And I I guess I would You're landing? It's landing very well. I I would say I would be curious, like, what what does an actual enablement session for that look like? Let's say, like, hey. Maybe I am bad at time management. Like, what would that cadence of us actually developing that skill look like? So for example, this is just one task. If you wanna take the the screen off and we can talk. It's this is just one task of many. I don't think it's helpful. Enablement sessions. Oh, gosh. I'm sure there's some enabling people on the call. I don't think it's helpful in this day and age with this generation to be like, I'm gonna I'm gonna lock Will in a room for 2 hours, and I'm gonna make him focus hard. I don't actually think that works anymore. It's just people's, attention spans are less. So for example, on time management, I'm probably gonna do 5 different tasks with you all week that are less than 30 minutes, and we're gonna go sprint for you to create a habit. Or I'm gonna have an hour meeting like this, and we're gonna put you in 4 different breakout rooms. So you're paying attention that whole hour. So enabling is about how people can actually consume the information. And I think for some of the the leaders here on the call, think about how much information SDRs are getting from their AEs, from their product, from their marketing. Do this, do that. And then as a leader, you need to navigate in there. Think about those sprint moments and actually enabling them effectively to get a behavior change you want. I think this is where we all struggle. It's actually I could tell you all day, go do it this way. But if you don't do it, it doesn't really matter. And if you don't get the, oh, problem, it doesn't really matter. Wow. We actually have some really good questions coming in from the chat here. How do you how do you do some of those 30 minute coaching sessions, like, at scale? I I can imagine as a leader, it's probably really hard to do that, especially with a limited calendar. Are there multiple people doing this, or do you group by level? Or All of the above. I usually, like, one we've done breakout rooms by level because typically in situational leadership, right, it's the framework of everything. You are supposed to coach or deliver the message to the lowest, person in the room. So even if you have a d 4 in the room on something and a d one, you are still supposed to coach the d one to bring everybody along and help that person who's good at it. So for sure, leveling, time, one to many. And if I'm on a call, I would say as a leader, be good with your technology. I'm very, concise on when we have 80 people on a call, camera's on. I'm here, but the deck is over here. I'm looking at the people for body language, see if it actually resonates. I'm gonna ask questions mid if I think it's boring or drags on. Right? So it's really about that moment and then the follow-up, follow through. I think a lot of people enablement 1 and done. And I think SDR leaders are I like to call them CEOs or CORROs, and they're both chief execution officers because I feel like SDRs and SDR leaders have to execute or chief reminding officer. You need to tell us something at least 6, 7 times to make it land. That's that's real life. That's in leadership. That is all how we're functioning these days. So CROs and CEOs are the SDR world for me. That that that is great feedback there. It's kind of like with SDRs. It always takes, like, 14 touches to get a meeting. Sometimes, as leaders, it takes 7 to 8 touches to get a response from a rep internally. True. What I yes. And what I see, a lot of people are trying to develop their skills to get somewhere within the org. Whether it's, hey. I wanna go AE or maybe I wanna become a manager or maybe it might not even be for me. Like, when when do you decide it's time to promote someone based off of their own internal skill development? This is this is the this is the good and the tough about being in the SDR world. Right? I say this, and this is not to offend anyone, but I I say it with love. Most people do not decide to be an SDR for life. I don't think most people are gonna retire with me. Statistically saying, probably not. If they want to, I'm excited, but I don't I don't think it's gonna happen. Right? And so promoting someone, there are three pieces of that process. And I think myself and the SDR or all, like, getting to a manager are controlled by those people, but there's one that isn't. So the first that you can control, am I ready? As the individual person who wants the promotion, are you ready? Have you quantified that? Which is back to the framework. Are you great at time management? Are you great at written communication? Are you great at negotiating? What what have you done to get better at those skills? 2, do we, the people in the room, believe you're ready? So there's a group consensus. Did you see the old lady? Did I see the young lady? Communication. Are we all on the same page that you're ready? And there's one piece we can't control, is the actual availability of the spot. So the availability as well as are you the right candidate? I can't control that and the person who wants the promotion can't control that. So I look at this a little bit differently. When I decide the promotion, it's really about can I do everything while someone's with us to develop the skill set to get where they wanna go? It isn't about, hey. I wanna be an SDR manager in 2 years. What do I do about it? You could be ready at 2 years, but the role is not open until 3. That full year, there's gonna be probably some tough feelings, tough conversations. How are we doing? And so my job in that role is saying, hey, where are we at? What can we do about it? And what do you want to do about it? And I think that's the balance. And I'm super honest with all teams. I think transparency is a big one about promotions. I think about the process of people want to know. But there's that hard moment that anybody who wants a job doesn't get it. There's a tough feeling there. And I'm ready. I'm ready. I've been ready, and there's no role open. Then hard choices have to happen. Do you wanna stay with the company? Do you wanna stay in that and wait it out? Do you wanna try again? Do you wanna go somewhere else? And what I care and I hope my leaders on my team care about and I've worked with others, I care more that you're leaving better than when you came so that you're feeling like you've got impact for your outcomes in your life. Yeah. No. I, I I know we were talking about this yesterday, but a lot of the a lot of the times when people just try to keep SDRs in their spot, it it doesn't end up working well. But when you're actually on to them where they can go or where they wanna be, it it ends up keeping them for longer. We have a really good question from Josh Fisher. Like, what what does an ideal week actually look for a solid SDR team? Like, how many trainings and meetings are you guys running? And, like, what what do you call what's this look like? This is actually dependent on what, department, segment, product you're selling. It all varies. So one of those things with an ideal week is you're constantly learning. You should be constantly learning. So if a team has it when I think if you're thinking about how to, like, get in trainings and meetings, I genuinely believe it's about time management and you can do what you need to do. Here's what I don't like on my team. I'll I'll maybe say what I don't do because I think it's crazy crazy language, but I think a lot of people fall into it. I think it's crazy to say out loud, hey, it's the last week of the quarter. I'm I'm closing it out. It's too big of a week. I I gotta hustle. That's that to me seems bad planning. You know, if I if I wanna put a training at the last week of the month or the quarter, that's because we have the talent, the execution up to that. It's kinda I feel like people love the buzzer beater. I call sales like the buzzer beater. Everybody loves that last half court shot, the home run-in 9th. And I'm like, hey. That's great. But I don't wanna do that every month or every quarter. I'd rather have the plan. I wanna talk about what we did in the second inning. I wanna talk about the free throw at the half. Like, those are the types of decisions and discussions I wanna have. Well, I love a good buzzer beater, but I don't wanna do that every day, and I don't wanna do that every month. And so my thoughts are trainings, meetings, how many call blitzes are based on the needs of the business, based on that timing, seasonality. As you know, you're when you call who you call in based on their roles, it all interacts with everything and cognizant. And also don't make up not excuses, but don't make up the thought of like, oh, gosh. We can't bother them. No. No. We're all adults. We're 8 hours a day plus. We can do a training if it's the most needed time. It's the best time. Good question. I I think what a lot of people are wondering in this one learning about d one to d four in terms of some of the enablement sessions is, like, what where do I go from here? So, like, let's pretend I'm an SDR or oh, wait. Where should I or anyone on this call, whether it's an IC or a manager, get actually get started and put this into practice tomorrow or Monday? There you go. First, read read what read the book if you want to. That's a good step. But if you don't read the book, go get the cliff notes. With all the AI technology out there, I'm sure you could get a summary pretty quickly. Right? But if you had to start tomorrow, I think and and Will used this language with me when we were talking about this, but it really resonated. Quantify what you're looking for and quantify where you are because this is one of those things where I think people are like, that's so cool. It's it's no different than you're like, I'm gonna run a marathon. I'm gonna run a marathon next week. Okay. I can't. So what do I gotta do? What's the proper planning? And am I really ready? So you think about approaching a a promotion, a career, thing like that, is that it needs a little bit of time. It's not I just woke up and now I'm really excited. See, part of d one through d four, and we didn't we talk about it, is commitment. Commitment varies. So let's go back to the beginning where I said, hey, Will, professionalism, you wanna get great at it, but tomorrow, you don't. Well, my conversation with you tomorrow based on your commitment is gonna be very different than today based on how you feel. Right? And so if you think about the commitment and the timing and, hey, it's the holiday season, I'm gonna put it on the back burner. Just being realistic of where you're at, and that will help you put the blocks in place. Quantify where you're at, quantify the commitment you have to change it, and then you roll. Mhmm. What do you feel like the biggest mistakes are and that you've seen managers and ICs make when it comes to their own career development? Well, let's go with, because mistakes. They're so I've learned from so many of them, and I think that's a piece of it is expect mistakes and learn from them. Oh, and maybe I think, like, stop trying to avoid that. I think that people rush because they don't wanna feel silly, they don't wanna make a mistake, they don't wanna disappoint someone, and the reality is you will. So instead of looking at it like avoid avoid avoid, actually embrace and I'm probably gonna make mistakes. So I usually say like I'm pretty confident but I'm confident I don't know anything. I'm confident I'm gonna make a mistake but I'm confident I'm gonna figure it out. Right? And so when you're that open and that set up to say, okay, like, how do I do this better? You're already off to the races. Think about, you said it, attrition. SDR leaders on the call, everybody in SDR leadership and in sales thinks about attrition. In my world, I'm like, wait, why am I trying to avoid this? It's inevitable. You're not gonna retire to me. So why don't I build a plan that supports it and works a timeline that actually sets everybody up for success? So I think that is a very different approach. And so I would just encourage, actually embrace the mistake, learn from it, and roll. I think SDRs are so used to rejection. It's saying, you heard no. I expect you still to pick up the phone for the next call. So Yeah. You're rolling. What'd you learn and keep rolling? That's great. It's kinda like being a rock down a hill. You just gotta keep rolling no matter what bump you hit. You know? I I know that we are coming up here at 30 minutes. I've been seeing a lot of really good questions in the audience, so we're actually gonna open up the floor. Feel free to throw any question in the chat, and then Sadie will be sure to answer it. Chris actually had a really good question. In your opinion, like, what is the ideal SDR candidate when hiring? Especially when it comes to tangibles and intangibles. Tangibles. I think you have to really decide hard skills, hard competencies, time management, management systems. But when you're hiring, be really cognizant of the 3 that you know are super hard to work on. So we look at 3 of them is perseverance. People love the buzzword grit. We're gonna put perseverance. Composure. Composure. I think when people get rattled, what's composure like? And then as we all know in this world, change. SDRs change a lot. They change what they're going after. They change what marketing they're using. They change who the ICP is. They change so much. So in the interview, I'm looking for those three things. And so let me I like this. Let me give you an example. Perseverance. K? I'm not gonna ask Will in an interview, hey, Will. Tell me the time you persevered. K? What I am gonna do is in a call with Will, I'm gonna say, hey, Will. Tell me about a time you went through something really hard and how'd you get through it? And I wanna look with the answer I'm looking for is Will to actually have a system to say he got through something hard so that he can go through hard times at this new job. Composure, hard to actually see. We have a role play as part of our interview process. And in the role play, it's not about did you sell me on anything in the role play. It's actually the role play happens, then we give you feedback right in the role play, and we see how you hear the feedback and adjust. Not right? So it's it's your interview process is really uncovering those competencies you know will make or break us an SDR success. Good question. I I really like the feedback aspect there. How can we, as SDRs, be more effective in actually being coached, in changing our behavior? Really good question from Julian. I'm going to and I'm I'm reading that. How can we, as SDRs? So, like, at the role, be more effective. There's a technique called mirroring. It's an old technique. So as an SDR, reaffirming and asking the questions to get more clarity is epic. I again, I think people are in this moment of enablement and being coached and do it this way. And then they they leave the room. They're like, what did that person just say? I don't really know. Where's the guide? Versus stopping in the moment and actually saying, hey, Pause. I don't know what you're talking about. Can you help me? Hey. So being really active and listening and getting clarity will expedite the coaching and changing your behavior. That is a good one. One. Oh, good. I I was gonna say I have a selfish question here. When when we were speaking about you you spoke a lot about, like, radical candor, and a lot you would say a lot of people describe your leadership style as intense. Could you could you elaborate a little bit on that for me? I because that that's something I don't hear a lot. So it was like a big book. Years ago, it was radical candor. It's a whole book. But people took it to the end of the year, and they're like, I just need to be radically candid with you and radical feedback. And but they're missing a component. Yeah. As part of that book, it's actually there's a component that says you have to personally care. And if the person doesn't believe that you personally care about their success, you personally are invested in their success, there is no shot to be radically candid. And so there's 2 two components to it. I'm genuinely curious. I mean, as Will said, he cold called me and now we're to the point where we're having this conversation. But I know that Will has 2 kids. I get pictures I knew when they were sick. Like, I genuinely care. I know where you live. I I genuinely curious. And I think my teams feel that. And if anybody's in the call, like, they've experienced me, I I do wanna know about your life because your life actually matters. And if you're you have a great life over here, you're probably gonna bring that greatness to work. And so if I can help make that part great and I wanna bring that greatness to work, I think it's all gonna work out. And then when stuff's going awry, think about the most trusted person in your life. You know they care about you. And so when they tell you something feedback, they know that's just for the betterment of you, the betterment of the situation. It's not because there's an ulterior motive. It's not because they want bad things for you. It's like, oh, do that. So that's the big thing about probably why someone, I would say intense, relentless. I'm not gonna probably leave the room until we're all really honest so that we can actually get better. And that might be uncomfortable for some people, once in a while. Yeah. I think I think you're the first person who tells me that I, I need to wear something more than just the plain t shirt and messy hair. So, you are a very honest person. The so one question that we have here is that the STR role used to be very, like, in the trenches and boiling room. Let me grab 3 Celsius's and knock out a 1000 dials. Right? A lot of teams have gone fully remote, especially since 2020. And a lot of places are doing hybrid now. Like, what are some of the pros and cons to you specifically? And it's like, is there a best working setup for being an SDR manager? I think your majority will say it's about your talent. So it's more about your talent on what they need and what they're doing. So if your talent's never actually been in corporate America, put them together. That's a key like life moment is that I've had my first job, official corporate job, put them together. What great memories come from that? I'm gonna pause too with the SDR world. Here's why I think I still stay in it. I think I've quantified myself is that usually SDRs are career changers, early talent, or looking to get in sales for the first time. Right? But typically, that comes with life events because sales is a financial game changer. If you're good at it, it changes your world financially. Okay? So you get to be part of people's lives when they're buying a home, getting married, having kids, and to be able to support those big, huge milestones in their life, it's a really big deal. So when you think about, hey, what's the best setup and, you know, cold call and hybrid and remote, you gotta think about how's that person gonna learn and how are we gonna excel that experience? So I think someone who's never done it, come on in. You gotta feel it. You gotta see it. If you've done this for 5 years, 10 years, and you don't want that hand holding, that's okay. But I'm gonna hold that person way more accountable than I'm holding the person that's never done it before. The person who's done it for 10 years, we are all coming in with, oh, you're more competent in some skills. We're gonna own it. You're gonna have to show up and demonstrate those. I I I love that one. So I know we're almost coming up here at time. Just looking through these questions. I think we'll have a a one or 2 more, and then we'll start wrapping it up. We do have a question here, and I think this is definitely a good one. How how do you help managers actually become better coaches? Because anyone can be a manager, but I think there is a pretty distinct, difference between being a manager and a coach. The coaching is, take us out of it. And you think of just sports because that's the most biggest analogy of with coaches and players. Right? And if you take us out of it, how do you listen to the coach? It's what the coach said on the field, and it's what the coach does and leads by example. It's what the coach does when you're having a moment of vulnerability. It's it's really about all of that combined to help actually level up some money. If if you're just telling someone call more, call more, call more, but you're not helping them on who to call, where to call, when to call, it it just really changes that outlook. And I think that's where articulation of what good looks like and articulating how to do it. So as a coach, think about we'll use baseball. If you're gonna hit a ball, it's not just it's not just hit the bat and the ball together. It's where is your shoulders? Where is your arm? Where is your legs? Where is your feet? Like, all of that matters, and it's the same when you're coaching an SDR. What's your tone? What's your mood? Have you smiled? What are you wearing? Or what are you, all that matters in coaching. And so can you have that coaching conversation to get the outcome you want? Because no I I say this all the time. No SDR gets up and says, can't wait to be terrible at my job today. So you you need to work with what you're, with the coaching where they're at. Yeah. It it definitely sounds like you can't just say, oh, go make more dials. You really have to add context as to why to do specific things too. Last question here from Dom. Like, what what does it look like when you actually need to empower, like, bottom performers? Dom, I saw that question too. So I was like, yes. We'll pick that one. Good job, Dom. I'm actually gonna be kind of a on an interesting statement here. So think about bottom performers back to the comp the about the commitment and the competency. And this was probably one of the harder lessons I have learned. I have worked with SDRs, and there's moments where it's that pivotal crucial moment of, are you gonna push through and figure this out, or are you not? And there's a moment of reality, and it it really struck me, so I'll tell the story, is that I had a gentleman. He was less than probably 3 months in, and he wasn't doing the work. K? This gentleman was talented, and I was like, what is happening? And I got into a room with him, and he said something to me that was profound and changed my leadership style pretty quickly. He said, I didn't know how I would feel when I made the call. And I thought, what do you mean? Like, it's cold calling. It's what do you mean you didn't know how you felt? And the reality was is that was the first time this individual was cold calling. It was the first time and he didn't know how he'd feel. The heart races, someone picks up and says hello. What am I gonna say? I don't wanna sound, you know, silly. But what happened for me as a leader, it comes down to that empowerment and upping their game is there has to be that choice. And so I said, here's my ask. I said, I need you to hustle through this. I need you to break through the pain. Let's do it. Let's do the blitzes. Let's call, and then let's review in 30 days. And I just need to see your effort. The effort was there. This gentleman went on to be one of the best SDRs I've seen, was so authentic, found his way, and now he is promoted to a different role crushing it and was phenomenal. But I do remember I was like oh this person's having an internal thing happening to him because he didn't know how he'd feel and so there's that moment. The other side, I've had someone say I don't like this job. I hate it, but I gotta pay rent. And I was like, cool. So do I. This isn't gonna fit. And it was it wasn't a bad he was great. I really enjoyed him. He did not wanna be in sales. He found out through the process of sales development he didn't wanna be there. And so that's where I'm like, oh, I get it. How do we make this easier for you? How do we make this easier for you? Because he he wasn't gonna do it. He's not in sales today. He didn't like it, and he learned a very personal valuable lesson. And and it wasn't about empowering to be up. It was a, oh, I don't like it, and having that moment too. So good question, Dom. So I think that's where you gotta decide as leaders and as an SDR. Is this the right fit for me? And I think that's hard sometimes for everybody. Wow. That was a great answer. We've been better than the question, Dom. Sadie, couple of things here. 1st, huge thank you. You've earned a lot of this wisdom clearly in the trenches yourself and thought deeply about several of these topics. For everyone who joined here, I see Dom, Riley, Park, Brian in the chat. Thank you for taking 30 to 40 minutes of your day just to learn more about a new skill, whether it's for yourself or for your team, and just for taking the time to get better at what you are already doing. It's not easy, so I applaud you guys for just doing it. We'll shoot out the recording after here. Everyone enjoy your weekend. Happy end of quarter. I know Monday is gonna be a fun one. We're running 2 more sessions here in October, or in November December. All about building a cold calling culture, and I'll include that in the follow-up as well. Otherwise, I hope you guys have a wonderful rest of your day and finish the month off strong. And, you can find Sadie on LinkedIn. Have a great weekend, everybody. Appreciate you. Oh, wait. I don't know how to what do we do? Oh.