Video: Account Planning 101: How to set up your team for PG success | Duration: 2416s | Summary: Account Planning 101: How to set up your team for PG success

Transcript for "Account Planning 101: How to set up your team for PG success": Right. Some people trickling in. Happy hump day, everyone. For people that are in the middle or the last week at the end of their quarter, hope you're getting some sleep. How you doing, Shay? Need high and tight. I let a couple of people trickle in here and we'll get going. I was talking to Jay, and I don't think he's on stage yet. Here we go. There we go. I'm on stage. Yeah. Now we got you. How you doing? I'm good. Good to see you, man. Good to see you. I appreciate you sharing some wisdom with folks. I'm gonna, try to get the crowd, engaged a bit here. We had, like, a 150 people sign up. We'll see how many people show up. For people it's a great name, so hell of a name. I'd love for people in the chat one thing I'd like to see is just your role and size of company. If you mind putting that in the chat. We wanna make sure this is relevant and has strong takeaways as possible. I'd love to see the size of companies people are at and what's their roles. Awesome. Thanks. Alright. Oh, Rusty. There he is. How you doing? What up, Rusty? AE's sales leaders. Awesome. Andy's here. Amazing. Alright. One other fun question, and then we'll hop into the meat of this. If you're just joining, I'm asking everyone to, put your role and the size of company you're at. Make sure we're as relevant as possible. For people that don't know Shay, and we'll get into the intro, but he's had a really unique experience being at a company from, you know, sub 10 people, sub couple 100000 in ARR up to a company that now has 100 of 1,000,000 in ARR post acquisition. So I think there's a lot of relevant learnings here for people. Next question to get people started. 1st concert you ever went to in your life? I'll start. I think mine's Red Hot Chili Peppers. I was, like, 15. And I think it's the best concert I went to. For people that know me, this shouldn't be surprising. I went to a Sugar Ray concert. Yeah. So there it is. Havre Levine. Epic. Awesome. Alright. Cool. Let's hop into it. I know people have busy schedules or likely in between meetings or a lot of other things they can do. I just wanna say, first off, I appreciate you taking some time to try to get better. I think the I look at sales and what we do as a profession, and it should be trained, worked on, watched film on, etcetera. Hopefully, you take away from some of this today that someone like Shay has taken the profession really serious. He's learned from some great people, and there should be some really good nuggets here to take away and start using. The reason why we wanted to put together this session today is a lot of people talk about, hey. We need to do more pipe jam. We need to get AEs to prospect. We need to get more from our BDR team, but there's not a lot of guidance on how. Right? So when I say how, I don't mean, how are we crafting a magical email or, you know, what's the right number of dials we need to do? I mean, if you're in leading an SDR team, leading an AE team, or want to be leading a team in the future, how do you teach the team how to do this well and get the right behaviors at scale, which, Shay, you're well aware of is getting harder and harder as organizations grow. So we're gonna approach this in 3 different sections. One on kind of what's the operating cadence? How do you tier up your accounts? Right? I think about that as what's the the initial part of the strategy. The second part on your plan, right? So Shay and I prepped for this. It's really, you gotta have a plan to be able to do this well and consistently. And then the last part is how do you form and craft the unique point of view, that allows you to add value? Shay will talk about value deposits here within an account and earn the right, to get a seat at the table. So I think, Shay, I'd love to hear just a quick intro from you, your story. And one thing I'd like you to add is just who you've had the opportunity to learn from, right? Like, you've been exposed to some really great leaders, multiple CROs, board members, that has kinda shaped and craft crafted your style. Yeah. For sure. Thanks, Todd. So I I got started at Heap about 9 years ago. I was the the first BDR there, and and then worked there, as an AE for for quite a while and then got into management about 5 years ago. I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of different sales leaders, folks like Neil George, Dennis Dresser. I've had the pleasure of working with Scott Andrew, James Cutrer, Doug Williams, and then I've also been mentored and advised by folks like Scott Davis and Dan Fuscher. And and I think in to to be specific to this topic, I think some of the sales leaders that have taught me the most about developing discipline and rigor around account planning and pipeline generation are folks like Dan Fugger, James Cutrer, Sean Andrew. That all came from, I think, a culture where PG was held in high regard. A lot of these folks came from, places like Datadog and MongoDB. And I've had the pleasure of learning from them and then getting to implement a lot of that at Heap and now Content Square. And for people that don't recognize some of the names, like, for CRO at Datadog, CRO at Anaplan when the company was taken public, Adobe, a lot of some of the big most successful software companies that I think has shaped where where you go where you are today, Shay. Let's hop into it. Right? I know you've built really successful teams. I know that you've acquired some teams and had to do some of the right training and performance management, really around this topic on, okay, I'm a more junior sales leader. I'm a VP of sales that's trying to turn on outbound for the first time. I'd love for you to share, and I know you have a couple couple templates on. How do you approach that? Right? What are some of the biggest learnings and how do you kind of get this machine going? Yeah. So we can, we can get into the account actual planning itself. I think, one of the biggest things I learned from, someone like Dan Pujere was you gotta build a culture around pipeline generation. I think a lot of times, pipeline generation is viewed as this monotonous, very tedious, forced task, upon yourself as an AE or the team. And I I don't think it has to be that way. It could be viewed as a team sport. You can make it really fun. As an example, I I was challenged, at the time by Dan Pujot, who is my my adviser, to go change that culture. And, what I did is I flew out to New York. I brought my entire team into the New York office, and, we started cold calling as a team. And, I made a fool out of myself having not cold called in 4 years. But, we made it fun. You know? We had we had some competitions. We put some money on the table, to drive meetings. But, that that really, I think, kinda sparked a culture that then we started to roll with. So so then I can get kind of the the specifics of account planning itself. Suffice screen share here, can I just launch a window? Awesome. Let's do I think this is stage. Nice. Let me know if you can see this, Todd. All good. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. Cool. So, the first thing is, after you've developed the culture, a a fun culture around pipeline generation, then you need an operational cadence to go along with it. So if we just kinda look at, a week over week accounting plan, then this these are the big pillars to this. 1st, you're gonna pick an account or a couple accounts, for the week or for the month. You're gonna build a value pyramid. We'll talk about what a value pyramid is, for each of those accounts to inform a lot of the messaging that you'll use to create value deposits. Then you're gonna create a PG plan. I I like to use those as tabs instead of a spreadsheet, which I'll go through. Leverage a smoke report, which is really to gather signal, on which accounts, what contacts you're gonna be going after, load those into a, what I call, is the crack the ice tab, and really hope to focus on those accounts and drive them into qualified opportunities that you can manage through an account a more intense account plan itself. Do you want me to talk a little bit about what kind of managers, kind of role they play in this? Yeah. For sure. I think I'm looking at a comment from Mark. But I'm an enterprise. Hey. Why do I have to cold call? You say, hey. I don't have time to prospect. I think kind of what you're getting at in the manager points here are how do you drive the right behavior, show the level of importance? What are some of your tips and tricks there? Yeah. I mean, the first thing again comes back to culture. I think one of the most impactful things that I've seen, from some of the leaders that came from Mongo was, they had some an AE who had multiple 7 figure years in a row. And outbound pipeline generation and hunting led to those 7 figure years. I've got other AEs that I have worked closely with that keep in now Content Square that have had those 7 figure years that would attest to outbound pipeline generation is the lifeblood to having and the key to having those 7 figure years. So you gotta know that 1st and foremost. And then, you know, as a as an AE, you gotta make that time week over week, to do the PG itself. And as a manager, it needs to be something that you you inspect and expect. Right? So you you can't, expect something that you're not managing or putting a focus on. So that's why first bullet here, like, in my one on ones, the first thing that we go through is the pipeline generation plan for the week. Right? And we get into that. Let's take a look at the 2 accounts that you plan to go after, the ones that you are continuing to work for maybe the week prior. And are you getting high, wide, and deep? Right? Are you looking at going after not just the business stakeholders, but the technical stakeholders? What's your top down and bottom up approach? And then taking a look at what is the messaging that you're utilizing and maybe what are the mediums that are working versus not working. So, those are those are the things that you just have to have tough mind. And as a manager, you have to consistently drive week over week. And you get into how you start to approach that. Right? So from, like, an account tiering standpoint, how many accounts you wanna be working, etcetera. Yeah. For sure. So maybe I'll I can talk about this, without sharing, my screen necessarily. So, big learning for me. Right? When I first started managing at heat, I think a lot of and a lot of leaders probably experienced this at companies that I think a lot of the folks who are working at companies of similar size. You know, every AE probably has somewhere between, like, 205 100 accounts. And and I think the problem with that that I had learned is it's very easy for the AE and even the managers themselves to say, hey. We tried 5 to 10 contacts there. We ran them through an f 8 step sequence, and it just didn't work. We didn't get any we didn't get any bites, didn't get any meetings, and move on, recycle the account, and go to the next. And so what you kinda end up with is a spray and pray approach, and that doesn't work these days. What you end up with is, like, a lot of, burned accounts, And and I think what I noticed is the more that we place the focus on going high, wide, and deep into a smaller number of accounts, we were far more successful. So to to kind of make that transition, what we started to do is we moved from anywhere with from, like, 200 to 500 accounts to 40 just to create that focus. And that was that was really that was very successful. And then we we implemented some other measures about what are some of the things that you need to do in order to actually, work a successful account. Pardon me. I'm getting an ad. And and what that looked like was you need to create a value pyramid and come to the table with a a point of view on how we could drive value to any given account in your patch. You had very tailored and personalized messaging. And then look. Like, there there are gonna be times where you work an account and exhaust it. You reached out to 20, 25, maybe 30 contacts in an account. You have a couple conversations, and you find out, hey. They're using the competitor's software, and they're on an agreement for the next 3 years. Okay. As a manager, I see that you work the account. You found out there's not really an opportunity for us here in the next 3 years. Okay. Let's let's recycle the account. I have a slush fund that I'm willing to actually recycle the account with, but I wanna make sure that you gave that that account, you know, a a a pretty good try. What goes in in I agree with you, Shay. I think, especially earlier in my career, it was like, hey. I need more accounts. And now most of the successful reps that I know are usually fighting for, hey. I only wanna work a small number of accounts. Right? Yeah. What gave you the confidence to kinda whittle that down if you're a rep on your team with 200 or 500? Whittling that down to 40? And, yeah, how did you approach that? Because it started back honestly, this started back when at Heap, you know, we had a mid market quota that was really hard to hit. And and the only way to hit it was you do a high number of transaction because the ACV was so low, or you go find some 6 figure deal. Right? And I remember working with 1 of, my AEs, and we we kinda cracked the code on this. And the the secret was a true value selling to to put a premium on our product and and more or less manufacture that 6 figure deal. Right? We we really pushed ourselves to increase that ACV and sell on the premise of value, not features and functionality. So when you dovetail out of that and you start to spend a lot of the time focused on how do we deliver value from the very onset, from the the initial outreach into the all of these conversations into an enterprise company and you start talking to 20, 30 people at an organization or key stakeholders in buying this and you start articulating the value to each of them, then you're you're putting yourself in a position to close much larger deals. And and I think what we ended up realizing and I know AE is probably on this call realize this too. It's like, the time it takes to close a 20, 30 k deal and a 300 k to 500 k deal is probably about the same time. Right? It's just about how you go about doing it. And a lot of it, if you just focus on understanding the company, understand the individuals that you're going after and how you can articulate value each of them, you're putting yourself in a position, I think, to to take better advantage of the time that you're working that account. Because you'll end up with a 300 to 500 k bill versus 20:30. Got it. So, Shay, big learnings for me when it comes to kinda account tiering, account selection. Right? It's kind of working together as a team, whether that's SCR, leader, AE, the everyone involved to make sure, hey, are we are we putting our time and resources in the most, what we believe to be the highest value areas? Focus on going deep rather than going wide in terms of number of accounts. Right? And then now you're starting to think about, okay, what's the plan? Who are the people on that account? How do I form our POV? How do I actually earn the right to have these conversations? I'd love to see you transition into kind of, what an account what the account plan looks like, what, like, the contact based strategy looks like, and share that with some of the some of the groups. Yeah. For sure. So I'll I'll walk through this pretty quickly. And if folks have questions, feel free to obviously stop me. Taylor, I'll I'll count on you for that. Okay. So so I I wanna quickly just walk through how you at least again, this is the suggestion. There's a lots of different ways to rip off of this. I've seen it done with my own teams who who take this as a template more or less and then rip from it. But I'll walk through kind of how to how to manage your patch and and account plan, maybe over the course of some something like a week. Right? So, first thing is you're you're gonna have your list of accounts, and and this is a spreadsheet and a template that I've come to use. It gets iterated on every quarter. But but what you have here and what you're looking at is is what we call the front page. And on the front page, what you have is your list of accounts. I'm I've anonymized everything into this. So you're gonna have a larger list of accounts, obviously. But one of the things that's key here is you've got the tiering, right, type of, prospect or customer that you've got here. And then you've got some some signal here as to, like, have we made contact, or is there any engagement, etcetera. And then you've got some other signals here as to what's hot, what's medium, what's warming, what's in my bullpen, and some other things that I think would be helpful to you and maybe your BDR if this is a collaborative document for the both of you. Right? So when when you've got your accounts here, the the next thing you wanna do is when you're when you're picking the accounts that you go after on a weekly basis or if you're making a plan for the month, you know, pick an account or 2 and then build a value pyramid. I think we're gonna get into what that looks like, Todd, maybe in in a little bit. But the idea, and I'll kinda just show this in a flash, is build build some, do some research and build a point of view. So understand what's the company driving at, what are they focused on from a strategy standpoint, how are they planning to actually execute on some of those strategies, and what are the risks and key success drivers to those digital initiatives. That's at least the case for us. And and that informs a lot of the messaging that you then start to absorb for more personalized or tailored messaging that you and or your BDR are gonna execute on. Right? So you have all that here. What I like to see is that folks, pick contacts they're gonna go after. A lot of that is built into sales nav. I know folks are probably pretty familiar with that. But then they've got some other notes here, who's gonna own this, some updates on the messaging or the communication, etcetera. Next thing is I I I like to have a smoke report here. Smoke report is is strictly signal on any account. So, what I like to see is, or the mantra goes, where there's smoke, there's fire. So if you start to see an account, you know, display some signal either through 6th Sense, through g 2, through Drift, through Champer Fi, through MQLs, or engaging with the site, I like to see that logged here. And then that might actually inform maybe these are some of the accounts that we go after, or some of the contacts that we go after because we see some engagement from them. They're warmer leads. And then the idea is to start moving them into what I call crappy ice. And crappy ice are accounts that you started to develop relationships with, you've had some contact with, you've had some conversations with, you've done some discovery, and you pull that those communications, the discovery points back into this sheet so that, ultimately, what we're trying to drive towards is leveraging all of this information to create a qualified opportunity. Jake, question for you. When you start to think about, okay, you've narrowed in on the accounts, you narrowed in on the contacts with an individual account, how do you guide the reps? Like, do you have a specific rule of, hey. We need to go 5 people deep or 8 people deep or we need someone from this title and that title. Like, in theory, yes, that all make sense. But at scale, how do you get the reps to do that? What rules or guidance do you use? Yeah. So at at at keeping Content Square, it's a little difficult. I think that, for us, it's it's a matter of positioning sometimes. So, it depends on are you are you going after, a beat it? What vertical? What persona type? Right? What's their stack look like? And it determines a lot of the positioning, for the messaging that you're going after. So at a high level, like, what I try to do is try to guide my team with some rules around okay. If you're going after a b to b SaaS company and someone on the data team, you know, you're probably looking at trying to talk about the value, that keep connect, our ETL solution could bring to that team. Right? So it informs a lot of the messaging, but you gotta tie that back to a lot of the things that you've researched and developed as part of your point of view from the value pair. Those are the high level things. I think in my one on ones, when we're looking at actual PG plans as a manager, I'm looking at okay. You know, what does your actual plan look like? What is your what are the tactical things that you're doing to break into this company? I wanna see who you're going after, what messaging are you using, what mediums are working. And as a manager, what I started to kinda parse out is maybe there are certain tactics or strategies that work for certain companies at certain times of the year. And I then start to relay that back to the team, hoping that I can create up upticks across the entire organization. Got it. So what what I'm hearing and very similar for us at Champify, right, we have aligned on the accounts and how many we think is realistic for an aide to do the right level of outreach that we deem, you know, high quality, high likelihood of success. We coming up with the point of view or you call it a value pyramid of what we believe the value prop is to that individual organization. Obviously, news or where there's smoke or, timing of the year can influence that. And then you're working with the reps to say, okay. A, are we getting deep enough? We know we need to touch a certain number of accounts. And then within those accounts, there's different personas that have slightly different value props, and it's important that you're kind of peppering all of those different value props to find the entry point. Is that a fair summary or anything you'd add to that? Bingo. No. I think that's that's it. Right? Like, you you circle the castle until you find some entry point. Right? And and especially for for us at deep in content square, the case is that there are multiple entry points. Right? There are different tactics that you can employ, different ways to articulate value. You gotta find that entry. Love it. I wanna take a question from the crowd, Steven. For AEs who are aligned to a team of BDRs, like, most of what you're talking about, Jay, is, you know, fortunate enough to have some BDR support. What's a great partnership look like? And what have you seen from AEs that are in unison with their BDRs in driving kind of outsides results compared to the rest of the field? Yeah. So okay. At a high level, I think that, it it needs to be more of a mentor, mentee type of relationship. Right? Like, that BDR, gets the opportunity to learn from the AE, and the AE actually gets an opportunity, I think, to teach that BDR a lot of things. It reinforces a lot of, I think, the learnings and tactics and strategies that the AE is is gonna be employing on a week to week basis. From there, you know, it's what I've seen is kind of the imperative piece to a successful relationship is an operational cadence where there's rigor and discipline. So I'll give you an example. When we rolled this out and I do a training every time we get kind of a new set of BDRs that are there to support the team, There is a meeting on Thursday where an AE delivers the the new accounts that they are going to be tapping together the following week. So so the delivery of those accounts happens Thursday afternoon. Friday morning, they're gonna review those accounts together. Now part of the delivery of those accounts, Maggie, is it's not just, hey. Here are the 2 accounts that I'm going after. There is a a a value pyramid that is developed for each of them. The contacts that they're gonna go after are also outlined, and some research associated with each of the contacts is also denoted in kinda the the PG plan tab I was showing there earlier with some suggested messaging. Right? And this really sets up your BDR for success. Now if you just ask them, hey. Here's here's 2 companies. Go for it. You as as the a, you can't really expect much. Right? So you give them the opportunity to review together that that plan going for the 4th of the next week, that Friday morning. Because Monday morning, I want my BDR coming in and hitting the ground running right away. I also selfishly, as the manager of the AEs, I want them to be able to come in Monday morning and hit the ground running. Right? But I I think what you end up finding is, like, that those two pieces set up success for the week the the the the next week coming up. And then, the the other piece that I've seen is just constant communication between the a and the BDR. Like, as soon as there is some reply to some outbound outreach by the BDR, there may be one of those contacts. It's like, even if it's some small response, you know, like, there's some sort of communication engagement between the 2, but what do we do here? It's like, 1, celebrate the win that you got you got some reply, or, hey. Like, a meeting got set. Celebrate that. That's amazing. Right? And then and then get really tactical about, alright. What do we do next? Or get strategic about, okay. We got we had 3 conversations with these folks on the product side. What do we do now? And that's where I've seen that relationship blossom. And there's ways to make it fun too. Like, I've suggested some of these books. Like, I mean, early on when I was at BDR, and I've suggested this to my team. It's like, throw some incentive out there. Put some cash on the table. You go get a meeting from me, I'll give you $400. Whatever. Right? There's ways to make this really fun, and, I think you can have a good time with it. It's a lot of gold in there, and I think a lot of the things you said are really important, specifically around the operating cadence. I see people like Liam and Rusty and Sarah, some leaders on this call. Right? Where it's like, okay. How do I make this fun? How do I keep the team motivated? How do I have the right cadence in place to make sure this is consistently top of mind? One detail you said, Shay, that I think is critically important here is I think the best p PG oriented leaders, both on the AE and SDR side, are very rigorous when it comes to, hey. In our 1 on 1, the reps know the first 10 minutes we're gonna be talking about this PPG plan. Like there's no hiding from it. It shows that how important it is relevant to everything else you're doing. And without that type of rigor, what ends up happening is most AE leaders know, and AEs know, you're in deal gossip mode. Right? You're always gonna talk about another deal, what's happening, and I think that rigor is extremely important. One one other thing just to add to that, I I got this from I didn't mention him. I should have. Zach is another great leader that I got the the opportunity to work for. I I actually was the flag bearer for PG for a while, and we had a PG Tuesday meeting. 25 minutes, whole company, whole sales team. Right? And it was a platform to share what worked in the prior week. You know, if you set a couple meetings, amazing. Get on stage, put a couple slides together, build the template for the the outreach that you did, and share it with the team. Right? And then, what we ended up doing, you know, towards the before getting acquired at Heap was we did these every Tuesday. We had a whole list of of little tactics in place that worked. We downloaded them. We templatized them. We have 60 pages of plays that you can now just rinse and repeat. Right? Which is cool. So then it's like, hey. I I'm, like, struggling with what to do here. You could you you know, I wanna get creative. You don't have to just rely on email, LinkedIn, and phone calls. Right? But you've got 60 pages of plays that have worked in the past for other folks. Go hit the playbook. Just find something you can rinse and repeat. I love that. We we have about 15 minutes left, Shay. I'm gonna share my screen for a couple minutes, and I wanna take it even a click deeper of okay. You know, we've aligned in the accounts. We know how deep we need to get there. We we know the personas. I think the hardest part of all of this is having that point of view. Right? Like getting someone to read a message that shows or answer a call and hear a message that's, wow, this person has done their homework. They have a hypothesis, that may be worth exploring. So as I go through this, Shay, I'd love to hear your take on how we approach it at Champify just to give people different flavors of this. And then I wanna come back to a couple questions in the chat around nurture and kind of when people trade out accounts. So this is how we approach things in terms of an account plan. Right? For anyone's that worked with me before, you'll know that I'm very big on understanding as much as you can about a business. Right? How do they earn money? Right? Who's their go what is their go to market? Who's their ICP? How are they doing competitively? Are they a winning or losing company? All of this starts to get you thinking in their mindset. The way we approach, the way we approach this information, Shay, in the prep call, we talked about this. Yes. It's a lot easier for public companies. Right? You there's a lot more out there, but now more than ever, between what you can find on job boards, people on podcasts, people talking and speaking engagements, people talking events. There is a lot out there. You just have to search deeper. Here's a list of where where we look. And then most of what our time is spent on is once you've done a bunch of this research, you're basically basically gathering raw materials to be able to form your POV. So before I even talk about this, you know, some of you might be saying, what the hell is a POV? Why are we even thinking in this language? The idea is doing the research isn't enough. Right? What's what's really important is if you've done your research, you should have gobs of potential information, gobs of potential messaging. What's the most critical part of this is how from, SDR, AE, sales leader that's helping these individuals. What stands out to these people is how do you synthesize a lot of information to be extremely relevant, extremely timely. Right? You ultimately, someone that coached me in in early in my career, you should be able to talk as if you're sitting at their all hands meeting. Right? When you have that level of detail, that's what earns the right. And then and then the final part is a POV is doesn't necessarily need to be right. This is not an offer, right? What you're really trying to get them to do is, you know, some people say kind of poke the bear. You're really trying to get them to say, okay, this is thought provoking. There's some type of insight. This person has changed the way that I'm thinking. So to make this a bit more concrete, we usually look at this in a in kind of one of 5 different areas. Right? Like, how are you challenging their current status quo? Right? How can you give them a different way to think about a problem? You're an expert. Right? Shay, you've been talking about digital analytics, product analytics for 9 years. Right? You've talked to 100 of businesses. You should be an expert to be able to challenge that status quo. And if you don't have that experience at 1 company, we're all lucky that Gong and Clari and all of these tools exist to get that information. I think the second thing is how do you empathize with some of the things they're going with? We sell to SDR leaders, demand gen leaders, sales leaders. Almost everyone's trying to figure out outbound right now. Almost everyone is having a harder time hitting their goals. And the more you can empathize with that through stories, the better. Same idea with painting a bold vision or uncovering a problem or trying to under understand, hey. I might have talked to a couple ICs on the team, or I've might have read something on rep view for us. Your version may may be Glassdoor or something else, but you're really trying to get to what's a root cause of a potential issue that you're really broadening their scope on an understanding of the problem. So, Shay, I don't know if any of these stick out or any of these that you feel like you help your team narrow in on, or any learnings that you've had that are similar to this or a different flavor? I I I think that this is all spot on. What it made me think of, I think the other big reason for developing a POV is, it's avoiding sales deficit disorder. Right? The biggest the the the the problem with a lot of sales folks is you don't understand their business. You're not listening. Those are the two symptoms. Right? And the reason that POV is so important is it shows that you are trying to do your best to understand that business before even having had a conversation. And that puts you in a position to make those value deposits. I love that. I personally think after leading a bunch of sales teams is that the problem when people see low activity, when the problems are people aren't seeing results, because they actually don't know what to do. Right? And I think it's it's really important to show, hey, this is what great looks like. Here's how we celebrate the wins, how we put together that 60 pages of different plays that have worked in the past. So couldn't agree more, Shay. I'm gonna open it up for questions. I have one for you, Shay. Before anyone else have have, questions, please put them in the chat. But, Shay, the question I have for you is, how do you think about nurture? I had a customer of ours the other day. This is an SVP of sales that has run sales at multiple large companies and and high growth companies and he said, you know, nurture is the new PG. Right? Like, you have to be so top of mind for these people so that when problems start to arise, you're there. How do you think about nurture? What have you learned on that front? How do you guide your team, to do that well, which is a complex topic? So I think it's a really good question. The way I think about nurture is, I well, I think about I think about how we've done nurture poorly and then, the learnings from that in order to actually do nurture correctly. So I think a lot of times, what happened in, at least, early on in my career is you'd have conversations, weren't so diligent about taking notes about the conversations that you were having or the information that you were discovering, and you lost all that context. Right? And so I I think that's part of kind of what comes back to the big, overarching message here, which is, like, you have to be organized. You have to have a plan. And so I think it really is a testament. Like, in order to nurture well, you have to document a lot of the information you're getting from either a discovery standpoint, or or that you're learning from the perimeter, like, by just researching the company. And so once you have all of this downloaded, right, then what I would suggest is, you you know, finding out when is a better time to reach out. Obviously, we do that through discovery, and then you have a back burner, list that you can always come back to and hit. But you can do you can do the outreach at the appropriate time with meaningful context. I think that's really important. What people hate, at at the customer accounts or the prospect accounts is, you know, they got beat to a pulp with outreach from some AE in their BDR for 3 months, and then sick told them, hey. We're not interested. 6 months later, a new AE who got the account in their BDR starts doing the exact same thing, and pretty soon you pissed off that customer and they're never gonna buy. I'm gonna put you on the spot, Shay, with the last question I have, and then if there's no more questions in the chat, we'll wrap. Where do you think most people go wrong here? Where do you think most sales leadership teams go wrong with getting people to do pipeline generation at a high level? I I mean, from my perspective, it it's it's a leadership thing. Right? I I think that the folks that get this wrong really don't, do a good job of turning around the culture, 1st and foremost, and then make it a priority. I think a lot of teams that I've seen in the past say, hey. We need the PG, but then don't make it a focal point week in, week out. And and that's where I I think you, as a leader, have a lot of leverage. Right? You can you can make this fun. You can make it creative, and you can keep it, at the the forefront of everybody's focus. You just have to be aligned top to bottom through the leadership organization and and be willing to put yourself out there as a leader. You gotta get vulnerable. I gotta tell you. Like, I that really was the turning point, right, is is myself getting involved with the PG. Like, I can't expect my aEs and BDRs to do the outreach if I'm not willing to do it myself. Right? And and so getting involved as the leader and changing that culture and then making sure top to bottom that it was a focal point week in, week out, PG Tuesdays. It was something the leadership team hammered on, every week, and measured us on was was, I think a big, big component to this and being successful. If you don't do that and you just say, hey. Like, I'm just gonna take a look at this once every quarter, once every month. It's probably not gonna go well for you. Great learnings. Hard to learn that stuff without seeing a lot of it firsthand. Shay, I just wanna say I appreciate you making some time and sharing some of your learnings. I really respect how you've gone about it because, you've done this all from the trenches. Right? You've made a lot of mistakes. You've had a lot of the learnings. You've seen different flavors of the playbook. I'll leave people with 3 points. If you look on the right hand side next to the chat, there's a docs tab. We have a whole guide on building a PG culture. Shay, the last thing you just said, that rang true for some of the leadership team at Harness, Talks about the CRO is the first one on Tuesday mornings making cold calls with the team. I think it does start with the top. There's also a link to our next webinar, which is gonna be in August, which has a CMO from Jellyfish, a guy named Kyle Lacey, around making pipeline bets. If you wanna register for that, great. Otherwise, I will email people the POV template I walked through. I wanna thank everyone for making some time today. We need to let Shay go and listen to Sugar Ray. So thank you all. Enjoy the rest of your Wednesday. Good to see you, Shay. Appreciate the time. Alright. Thanks, guys. Have a good one. See you.